Newsletter Israel / Palästina

[moon]

What the fuck was that that thisf estival? I'm so fucking disappointed with Fusion's political standpoint this year.overall overwhelming support for Israel disguised as "against all anti-semitism." all you saw was that, with almost no support for the Palestinian people. The only "Free Gaza" I saw was in terrible stickers or graffiti saying "Free Gaza from Hamas." So much for a left-wing festival openly supporting genocide, oppression, and colonialism ))))))))

I felt underrepresented and repressed overall, had no guts to say anything after what they said in the newslatter. there was no recognition at all that maybe, just maybe, Israel is following the old mistakes of Germany and being a terror state. That has nothing to do with Jews or Semitism; that is pure nationalism, but this point has been made a thousand times. I am shocked at how blind the left is in Germany, honestly.

I wish there had been no boycott from Palestinian people, because they were needed at the festival. The best had been if they were there, their voices where there. I wish I had seen protests and DJs raising flags. only that to wake up this people.

let's see how long my comment will stay before it gets deleted

I was hoping for more signs of solidarity as well. But dont forget , we are in delulu Germany, where many people still ride the "Free Gaza from Hamas"- train, many are not very informed, might be priviledge, might be the lack of quality journalism , or simply racism. You can read even many in the forum feel free to express their racist and islamophobic opinions. Here something as disgraceful as Antideutsche exist and is allowed to be supported by Fusionmoney. But I also saw quite some people expressing their solidarity by wearing Kuffiyeh and other signs and Bands/Performers expressing their solidarity by speaking up (would hae been great if it would have been much more though).

here one for instance:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xWKfUs1Vf/?img_index=1

and here is a little Antideutsche performance to watch (it's so on point):
https://www.instagram.com/p/C869L22soz8/

Again. There is nothing like "islamophobia". I don't know which religion I should be afraid of if not islam. Its one of the worst ideologies in this world! And why does the extreme left respect religions now? Whats wrong with you guys? Or do you just ally with Islam as they are against the west as well? Then you can also ally with some nazi scum. They also hate the west, capitalism, jews and love patriarchal society.

Religions have never been a good thing. Christianity luckily today is not as important anymore while Islam still kills and terrorizes the world and also the people in islamic countries that want to live free and be openly gay or trans or just not religious. How can you defend an ideology like islam as a leftist?

to be afraid of religions is normal for every halfway intelligent person wanting to live in a free world. fuck islam. overcome islam. for a world without religions <3

Linke Religionskritik beschränkt sich heute leider gratismutig auf die böse katholische Kirche. Der Islam wird aus ideologischer Verblendung (sorry anders kann ich es mir nicht erklären) ausgeklammert bzw. gar unter Schutz gestellt, obwohl er in seiner mehrheitlichen Ausprägung linken Werten diametral entgegensteht. Die politische Linke hat es bis dato nicht einmal geschafft, sich konsequent auf die Seite der einzigen progressiv-liberalen Moschee Deutschlands (die Ibn Rushd–Goethe Moschee in Berlin) zu stellen. Es ist die einzige Moschee in Deutschland, wo Frauen ohne Kopftuch, gemischtgeschlechtlich beten können. Es ist auch die einzige queer-freundliche Moschee. Natürlich wird sie von den großen deutschen Islamverbänden nicht anerkannt und mit allen Mitteln bekämpft. Die Frauenrechtlerin und Gründerin Seyran Ateş musste schon einen Anschlag der Grauen Wölfe überleben und steht bis heute aufgrund von Bedrohung durch Islamisten unter permanentem Polizeischutz. Liberale Muslime und Ex-Muslime können einem in diesem Land nur Leid tun. Sie werden von drei Seiten bedroht: von Rechtextremen (weil migrantisch), von konservativen Moslems/Islamisten (weil liberal/Häretiker/Apostat) und von identitären Linken (weil angeblich "islamophob"). Für mich ist die mangelnde Kritikfähigkeit weiter Teile der Linken gegenüber dem Islam und die Entsolidarisierung mit liberalen Islamkritikern eine der größten politischen Enttäuschungen überhaupt. Nur die Antideutschen haben diesen blinden Fleck ausgefüllt. Darüber bin ich sehr froh, auch wenn ich in manch anderen Punkten mit AntiDs nicht übereinstimme (was ja auch ok ist, man muss ja nicht überall einer Meinung sein). Ich erinnere mich auch noch gut an die Zeit vor den letzten Aufständen im Iran. Da war selbst Kritik am Mullahregime in linken Kreisen verpöhnt bzw. nicht gerne gesehen (weil "westlich-hegemonial" bzw. "islamophob"). Das hat sich glücklicherweise mittlerweile geändert. Irgendwann wird halt auch der letzte von der Realität eingeholt. Es besteht Grund zur Hoffnung. Ich meine derzeit auch eine neue linke Tonart gegenüber dem politischen Islam wahrzunehmen. Bin gespannt, ob ich es irgendwann mal noch erleben darf, dass die politische Linke mit ihrer Lebenslüge zum Islam konsequent aufräumt.

[stopthepflok]

What the fuck was that that thisf estival? I'm so fucking disappointed with Fusion's political standpoint this year.overall overwhelming support for Israel disguised as "against all anti-semitism." all you saw was that, with almost no support for the Palestinian people. The only "Free Gaza" I saw was in terrible stickers or graffiti saying "Free Gaza from Hamas." So much for a left-wing festival openly supporting genocide, oppression, and colonialism ))))))))

I felt underrepresented and repressed overall, had no guts to say anything after what they said in the newslatter. there was no recognition at all that maybe, just maybe, Israel is following the old mistakes of Germany and being a terror state. That has nothing to do with Jews or Semitism; that is pure nationalism, but this point has been made a thousand times. I am shocked at how blind the left is in Germany, honestly.

I wish there had been no boycott from Palestinian people, because they were needed at the festival. The best had been if they were there, their voices where there. I wish I had seen protests and DJs raising flags. only that to wake up this people.

let's see how long my comment will stay before it gets deleted

I was hoping for more signs of solidarity as well. But dont forget , we are in delulu Germany, where many people still ride the "Free Gaza from Hamas"- train, many are not very informed, might be priviledge, might be the lack of quality journalism , or simply racism. You can read even many in the forum feel free to express their racist and islamophobic opinions. Here something as disgraceful as Antideutsche exist and is allowed to be supported by Fusionmoney. But I also saw quite some people expressing their solidarity by wearing Kuffiyeh and other signs and Bands/Performers expressing their solidarity by speaking up (would hae been great if it would have been much more though).

here one for instance:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xWKfUs1Vf/?img_index=1

and here is a little Antideutsche performance to watch (it's so on point):
https://www.instagram.com/p/C869L22soz8/

Again. There is nothing like "islamophobia". I don't know which religion I should be afraid of if not islam. Its one of the worst ideologies in this world! And just because most muslims are peaceful living it does not make the ideology any better. Because what happens if you happen to be gay? Will you be accepted by your moderate muslim family? Very propably no. And why does the extreme left respect religions now? Whats wrong with you guys? Or do you just ally with Islam as they are against the west as well? Then you can also ally with some nazi scum. They also hate the west, capitalism, jews and love patriarchal society. Well...and they are one of the reasons for todays antisemitism in the arab world.

Religions have never been a good thing. Christianity luckily today is not as important anymore while Islam still kills and terrorizes the world and also the people in islamic countries that want to live free and be openly gay or trans or just not religious. How can you defend an ideology like islam as a leftist?

to be afraid of religions is normal for every halfway intelligent person wanting to live in a free world. fuck islam. overcome islam. for a world without religions <3

First of all, iam atheist and i was never a fan of any religion, and also believe that religion can be a vessel for agression and chauvinism, just like national states can be such a vessel. Also, I agree that the term Islamophic is problematic, cause it can implies that it is a mental illness. Its the common english term to describe prejudice against muslims, but in german the word Muslimfeindlichkeit would for instance fit better. But to answer why i got a different opinion than you. Currently in germany there is a strong wave of anti arab and anti muslim racism (there always was, but these days it feel its getting stronger again). I believe the banner that you are referring to wanted to raise awareness to those tendencies and express solidarity. And i believe these expressions of solidarity are very necessary especially in germany these days. If people believe in something, if it is Christianity , Judaism, Buddhism or Islam etc. it doesnt mean that they are a danger for you or anyone else. There is a vast mayority of people that practice religion who do that peacefully. I know that by personal experience since I work with refugees, many of them muslims. Not everyone shares the same set of values, for instance in equal rights of women and men or homosexuals, but we shouldnt forget that this also counts for many people in countries where most people are not muslims. Also in germany some decades ago certain more liberal views took time to evolve (homosexuality was legally punishable until 1994, in Switzerland women were only allowed to vote from the 70's on). And that religious people have a different set of values doesnt mean that those people wanna put their set of values upon others around them. They might not understand or apply certain standards for themselves, but some will learn to adapt, many will simply not care. Should people that are religious because they were born into it, be punished for being religious. I guess we can agreee they shouldnt. As we can see in many societies, once more wealth is aquired and traditional family structures become less important, societies tend to turn more and more their back on religion. Also partly due to geopolitical power games (especially by the U.S,), many regions were religions are dominant, didnt go through such an development yet. Thats also why Antideutsche with their muslim-hate and their opposition to antiimperialism are such hilarious loosers (many of them apparently seem to enjoy their time in this forum), and of who most leftists rightfully make fun of.
What can we do to work on a development where we as societies, neighbours , grow together, become more humanistic? For instance if we dont judge others by their religious, their skin color, where they are coming from. That is what i believe this banner wanted to express. That doesnt mean that it is not possible to critize certain aspects of religions by the way

[Travis]

I have to say, the lack of explicit support at Fusion for the Palestinian people and what Israel is doing to them was disheartening, surprising, and disappointing. I assumed there would be much more focused and vocal support from the organizers. Was weird actually given the current moment.

[Deleted User 63673]

I was hoping for more signs of solidarity as well. But dont forget , we are in delulu Germany, where many people still ride the "Free Gaza from Hamas"- train, many are not very informed, might be priviledge, might be the lack of quality journalism , or simply racism. You can read even many in the forum feel free to express their racist and islamophobic opinions. Here something as disgraceful as Antideutsche exist and is allowed to be supported by Fusionmoney. But I also saw quite some people expressing their solidarity by wearing Kuffiyeh and other signs and Bands/Performers expressing their solidarity by speaking up (would hae been great if it would have been much more though).

here one for instance:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xWKfUs1Vf/?img_index=1

and here is a little Antideutsche performance to watch (it's so on point):
https://www.instagram.com/p/C869L22soz8/

Again. There is nothing like "islamophobia". I don't know which religion I should be afraid of if not islam. Its one of the worst ideologies in this world! And just because most muslims are peaceful living it does not make the ideology any better. Because what happens if you happen to be gay? Will you be accepted by your moderate muslim family? Very propably no. And why does the extreme left respect religions now? Whats wrong with you guys? Or do you just ally with Islam as they are against the west as well? Then you can also ally with some nazi scum. They also hate the west, capitalism, jews and love patriarchal society. Well...and they are one of the reasons for todays antisemitism in the arab world.

Religions have never been a good thing. Christianity luckily today is not as important anymore while Islam still kills and terrorizes the world and also the people in islamic countries that want to live free and be openly gay or trans or just not religious. How can you defend an ideology like islam as a leftist?

to be afraid of religions is normal for every halfway intelligent person wanting to live in a free world. fuck islam. overcome islam. for a world without religions <3

First of all, iam atheist and i was never a fan of any religion, and also believe that religion can be a vessel for agression and chauvinism, just like national states can be such a vessel. Also, I agree that the term Islamophic is problematic, cause it can implies that it is a mental illness. Its the common english term to describe prejudice against muslims, but in german the word Muslimfeindlichkeit would for instance fit better. But to answer why i got a different opinion than you. Currently in germany there is a strong wave of anti arab and anti muslim racism (there always was, but these days it feel its getting stronger again). I believe the banner that you are referring to wanted to raise awareness to those tendencies and express solidarity. And i believe these expressions of solidarity are very necessary especially in germany these days. If people believe in something, if it is Christianity , Judaism, Buddhism or Islam etc. it doesnt mean that they are a danger for you or anyone else. There is a vast mayority of people that practice religion who do that peacefully. I know that by personal experience since I work with refugees, many of them muslims. Not everyone shares the same set of values, for instance in equal rights of women and men or homosexuals, but we shouldnt forget that this also counts for many people in countries where most people are not muslims. Also in germany some decades ago certain more liberal views took time to evolve (homosexuality was legally punishable until 1994, in Switzerland women were only allowed to vote from the 70's on). And that religious people have a different set of values doesnt mean that those people wanna put their set of values upon others around them. They might not understand or apply certain standards for themselves, but some will learn to adapt, many will simply not care. Should people that are religious because they were born into it, be punished for being religious. I guess we can agreee they shouldnt. As we can see in many societies, once more wealth is aquired and traditional family structures become less important, societies tend to turn more and more their back on religion. Also partly due to geopolitical power games (especially by the U.S,), many regions were religions are dominant, didnt go through such an development yet. Thats also why Antideutsche with their muslim-hate and their opposition to antiimperialism are such hilarious loosers (many of them apparently seem to enjoy their time in this forum), and of who most leftists rightfully make fun of.
What can we do to work on a development where we as societies, neighbours , grow together, become more humanistic? For instance if we dont judge others by their religious, their skin color, where they are coming from. That is what i believe this banner wanted to express. That doesnt mean that it is not possible to critize certain aspects of religions by the way

This is why I criticize the ideology not the muslims. Even when a lot of them can be criticized too. You don’t have to stab people or blow yourself up to be a problem. Its enough if you tell your daughter she was a slut if she doesn’t wait until marriage or your son that he has to be a real man. These very patriarchal ideas are islam basically. And tries to make it modern result in attacks and police protection as written above.

I have had bad experiences with this religion with a gf that lived in a orphanage kind of place as her dad tried to kill her for living a western live and others. And I do criticize Christians a lot as well coming from an very conservative Christian household. But in my upgrowing i never experienced the awful things i later witnessed or heard from friends/ partners from islamic households.

Of course arabs need to be protected from hate but not from criticism. The criticism must be allowed.

[ulix]

Was mich am meisten an der Diskussion stört, ist dass Leute wie du versuchen das Klima zu vergiften und eine "Mit uns oder gegen uns"-Situation draus zu machen. Ich glaube die allermeisten Leute hier sind sich bewusst, dass sie selbst die ganze Thematik niemals gänzlich nachvollziehen und durchblicken können, da sie viel zu komplex ist.

Wie ich ja schon öfter ausgeführt habe ist der Konflikt (wie jeder Konflikt) historisch hochkomplex, aber moralisch extrem simpel zu verstehen:
Eine Seite unterdrückt seit 75 Jahren die andere brutal und konsequent, durch Apartheid, Segregation, Militärdiktatur, etc.

Aktuell durch einen verdammten Genozid, eines der größten Verbrechen der jüngeren Geschichte, vorangetrieben durch eine faschistische Regierung, eine faschistoide Bevölkerungsmehrheit, und die de facto bedingungslose Unterstützung "liberaler" westlicher Regierungen.

Das wars, viel mehr muss man nicht verstehen, alles andere folgt aus dieser Grundprämisse.

Dass der Konflikt auf der Fusion nicht offen (so dass ich es mitbekommen hätte) ausgetragen wurde ist richtig und finde ich auch in Ordnung.
Umso wichtiger aber, ihn dann irgendwo anders zu thematisieren, und sei es hier im Forum. Wenn dann einige wie Schmetterling aber ganz offen faschistisch argumentieren, ist bei mir tatsächlich das Ende dr Fahnenstange erreicht.

Da kann man nur hoffen, dass wenige POC hier das Forum frequentieren, und lesen was andere (als ich) hier so schreiben. Kein Wunder wenn Menschen wie Jodsalz da abgeschreckt sind. Im Kern ist der Israel-Apologetismus und der Both-Siderism, der ernsthaft so tut als sei die (beschissene) Hamas in der Realität nicht das kleinere Übel als der israelische Terrorstaat, zutiefst rassistisch und extrem deutschtümelnd oder alternativ richtig schön liberaler Mainstream, in der negativsten Konnotation die ihr euch vorstellen könnt.

Man kann viele Meinungen dazu haben und Positionen dazwischen beziehen, man kann sich mit einer Seite solidarisch zeigen, ohne die andere zu hassen oder man kann alle scheiße finden und man kann sich vor allem einfach nur wünschen, dass das Leid, das die Menschen in der Region seit gefühlt immer erfahren endlich aufhört. Das wird aber nicht passieren, wenn man den Blick nur in eine Richtung wendet und seine gesamte Energie darauf aufwendet, eine Menschengruppe zu dämonisieren.

Die einzige Menschengruppe die hier ich "dämonisiere" sind israelische Faschisten. Daran ist absolut überhaupt nichts problematisch.

Problematisch ist hingegen, wenn Andere hier in schön Anti-Deutschem (also ultradeutschem) Duktus so tun, als seien linke jüdische und israelische Stimmen vollkommen irrelevant, und als könne oder solle man diese ignorieren. Palästinenser, Araber und andere POC sowieso.

Es ist zum Kotzen.

In der gesamten Diskussion hier kamen viele Zwischentöne auf, die aber von lauten Stimmen wie deiner erstickt werden. Das ist schade, weil erst dann auch nur eine Hoffnung auf eine Lösung des Konflikts besteht, wenn wir aufhören, die Gegenseite für das Böse zu erklären und einander zuhören. Es bringt nichts, aufzulisten welche schrecklichen Dinge in der Vergangenheit geschehen sind, um damit irgendetwas zu rechtfertigen und zu entscheiden, wessen Gewalt jetzt besser war.

Die Grundprämisse des Konfliktes habe ich oben erneut beschrieben. Dazu gehört auch folgender Unteraspekt:

Die eindeutige Hauptverantwortung, mit riesigem Abstand, am Leid der Palästinenser trägt der israelische Staat. Und zwar seit mindestens 30 Jahren. mNn ja schon seit 75 Jahren, aber seit 30 Jahren gibt es keine Zweifel.

Die Macht, schließlich aktiv etwas daran zu ändern, hat nicht nur fast, sondern ausschließlich der israelische Staat. Ggf. durch Druck von außen, denn auf die jüdisch-israelische Mehrheits-Gesellschaft kann man sich da leider nicht verlassen.

Was euch übrigens auch die jüdisch-israelische Linke verklickern will, wenn ihr ihr zuhören würdet.

Wer das nicht anerkennt, mit dem besteht tatsächlich keine Diskussionsgrundlage, und der/die kann sich verpissen.

[ulix]

Wo? Ich habe nie gesagt dass Hass gegen Israel antisemitischer Herkunft sein MUSS, bei dir wirkt es halt so mit deinem verantwortlich machen Israels für die von den Hamas hingerichteten Menschen. Irgendwo sind am Ende immer die Juden Schuld bei euch Antisemiten.

Soviel geballte Dummheit kannst du dir echt nicht ausdenken. Schon wieder bist DU es, der Israel und Judentum in antisemitischer Manier gleichsetzt. Unfassbar. Damit ist auch das Niveau des restlichen Posts vorgegeben, weshalb ich darauf scheißen werde auf den Rest zu antworten-

Es ist wirklich einfach zu dumm und vollkommene Zeitveschwendung, mit solchen Antisemiten zu diskutieren, die unfähig sind das Judentum nicht zu Essenzialisieren und es auf Israel zu projizieren.

Israel ist weder "der" noch ein jüdischer Staat.

[ulix]

Again. There is nothing like "islamophobia". I don't know which religion I should be afraid of if not islam. Its one of the worst ideologies in this world! And just because most muslims are peaceful living it does not make the ideology any better. Because what happens if you happen to be gay? Will you be accepted by your moderate muslim family? Very propably no. And why does the extreme left respect religions now? Whats wrong with you guys? Or do you just ally with Islam as they are against the west as well? Then you can also ally with some nazi scum. They also hate the west, capitalism, jews and love patriarchal society. Well...and they are one of the reasons for todays antisemitism in the arab world.

Religions have never been a good thing. Christianity luckily today is not as important anymore while Islam still kills and terrorizes the world and also the people in islamic countries that want to live free and be openly gay or trans or just not religious. How can you defend an ideology like islam as a leftist?

to be afraid of religions is normal for every halfway intelligent person wanting to live in a free world. fuck islam. overcome islam. for a world without religions <3

Feinste rassistische Essenzialisierung, in diesem Fall von Muslimen und nicht Juden. Aber schön als Präsentationsmaterial für die antideutsche Psychose zu nutzen.

Was das ganze übrigens mit der Hautfarbe zu tun hat:
Intrinsisch gar nix. Aber statistisch sehr viel, denn natürlich sind es in linken "deutschen" Kreisen hauptsächlich POC, die sich auf die Seite der Palästinenser stellen. Das heißt natürlich nicht, dass alle das so sehen. Idioten, Rassisten, Faschisten, Menschenfeinde, Autoritäre usw. gibt es eben mit jeder Hautfarbe.

...und sogar mit linkem Selbstverständnis.

[Deleted User 63673]

Ulix, sei nicht böse aber du bist nicht ernst zu nehmen. Die Hamas als das kleinere Übel hinzustellen...da fällt mir nichts mehr ein.
Im Endeffekt auch egal. Das schöne ist: Israel wird die Kampagne beenden und die mächtigen Parteien der Welt werden das Regeln. Keine Sau interessiert sich für Südafrika oder andre linke antisemtische Clownstaaten.

Israel muss seine Probleme lösen und ich hoffe sie lösen nicht nur das Palästinenserproblem sondern auch die internen Probleme langfristig. Was ein Ulix und einige andrere linksextreme Spinner sagen ist aber international nicht weiter von Bedeutung. Vielleicht besucht die nette Hamas ja mal ein Festival auf dem du bist Ulix. Wird sicher cool. Mal sehen ob dir deine Freunde in den Kopf oder Rücken schiessen. Vergewaltigt wirst du vermutlich nicht...immerhin das.

Die Hauptverantwortung am Leid der Palästinenser tragen die Palästinser. Tun sie doch seit 75 Jahren nichts anderes als anzugreifen. Verlieren. Greifen wieder an. Aggression nach aggression um endlich den Traum von "from the river to the sea" zu verwirklichen verheizen sie ihre Jugend.
Es wird Zeit einen palästinensischen Staat zu schaffen und ihn unter die Verwaltung anderer arbabischer Staaten oder der UN oder sonstwas zu stellen die dann dort für Ordnung sorgen müssen. Hat keiner Bock drauf diese Terrorbrut zu betreuen. Niemand. Selbst die arabischen Länder drumrum distanzieren sich.

[ulix]

Doppelpost, sorry.

[ulix]

Ulix, sei nicht böse aber du bist nicht ernst zu nehmen. Die Hamas als das kleinere Übel hinzustellen...da fällt mir nichts mehr ein.

Nun gut, die eine Seite hat 1200 Leute ermordet (genau genommen eher so 800, aber das wäre jetzt Korinthenkackerei), die andere mittlerweile sicher über 40.000 (was ein Undercount sein wird), und 2 Millionen obdachlos gemacht und vertrieben, ausgehungert, mit Bomben terrorisiert, ihre Heimat für Jahre unbewohnbar gemacht, usw. usf.

Man kann das also natürlich anders sehen, wenn man palästinensischen Leben weniger Wert beimisst als jüdisch-israelischen. Oder man die Palästinenser kollektiv für die Taten der Hamas verantwortlich macht. Oder beides.

Anders ausgedrückt: Wenn man ein rassistisches Stück Scheiße ist. ...You do you...