Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

[flameijer]

come on guys, in the past during nighttime you had NO level at all at Turmbühne. it was superboring and every artist who had to play at night knew it will be not a highlight. Now it is even during nighttime a pleasure. Last year the lambda could play louder at turmbühne because there were only 4 stages with these planet events. Now during night, the whole emission from 30 stages is being measured by walking around measuring guys. when level is exceeded, FOH people pull levels down. hard but fair. so isn't it an great achievement to play at least at these levels, which are still great to perform and dance, during night? of course we can go back to groundshaking bass arrays like in the past during daytime..and in the night we just leave out the big stages like I always did in the night and seeking the small ones, because it was so boring on the big. imagine lambda would just take their 50 subs from this time and make such a wall or tower like f1 did in the past. do you really think it would not work. Really? it is a changed concept. maybe a more up-to-date one, to achieve more goals at once and to satisfy more people in the end?

Hi Schmusesuse,

Thank you for your message and I feel what you say, great arguments. At night it was always indeed less intense and loud and I also decided to check out the smaller stages. However, I maintain that there is a lack of bass at the Lamba system setup at the moment, even during the day. For me, one of the elements that makes Fusion Fusion is the ground shaking bass during the day, which began with the morning sets and ended at sunset. That's roughly 75% of the entire 24 hour day, which is fine with me if the night is a little less loud and intense. The Lambda setup, in my opinion, does not stimulate the touch sense as well as the Funktion One setup, which I believe is required to achieve perfect harmony with all four other senses that are perfectly stimulated. It's that little difference between making the party from amazing to mesmerizing and then it's all about the little details, like the intensity of the bass. To truly create that collective audio hypnosis with thousands of people at the same time, you just need a more powerfull bass, especially now the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste dance floor is so large. Hence my letter. But like mentioned earlier in my replies, it's OK to have different experiences and opinions, especially when it's about such an emotional and personal thing as audio. It's OK to disagree here, but I just want to share some arguments and experiences.

I agree with you that the ground shaking bass is not Funktion One limited and that Lamda Labs def could also create such a bass sound. But my experience is just so amazing with Funktion One that that is my reference point for my argumentation.

[SensibleEar]

I was disappointed by the system at Turmbühne - could not stay there for my favourite artist. During the night it was nicer - still I had to wear ear protection and felt that the tops did not fit to the bass ..
also there was a weird frequency resonating in the lower mids. Not very audiophile. This got really bad when vinyl was played.
I so much would like to hear the old system A-B to the new approach. Having such little emissions to the back and little to the side is a big win though for all other floors!

[flameijer]

Maybe the Best solution for tantwüste is
High and mid range: lambda labs
Mid Bass range: wall of lambda labs
Low bass range: wall of Kirsch audio

The 2016 setup with Funktion one in High & mid range and Funktion one for mid Bass and Kirsch Audio for Low Bass really really really kicked my ass.

Hi Ronti, nice suggestion.

The 2016 set-up was indeed an amazing set-up where the bass hit thousands of people at the same time. You could feel the energy of the people who partied their ass off. Just mind blowing:)

[flameijer]

come on guys, in the past during nighttime you had NO level at all at Turmbühne. it was superboring and every artist who had to play at night knew it will be not a highlight. Now it is even during nighttime a pleasure. Last year the lambda could play louder at turmbühne because there were only 4 stages with these planet events. Now during night, the whole emission from 30 stages is being measured by walking around measuring guys. when level is exceeded, FOH people pull levels down. hard but fair. so isn't it an great achievement to play at least at these levels, which are still great to perform and dance, during night? of course we can go back to groundshaking bass arrays like in the past during daytime..and in the night we just leave out the big stages like I always did in the night and seeking the small ones, because it was so boring on the big. imagine lambda would just take their 50 subs from this time and make such a wall or tower like f1 did in the past. do you really think it would not work. Really? it is a changed concept. maybe a more up-to-date one, to achieve more goals at once and to satisfy more people in the end?

Hi Schmusesuse,

Thank you for your message and I feel what you say, great arguments. At night it was always indeed less intense and loud and I also decided to check out the smaller stages. However, I maintain that there is a lack of bass at the Lamba system setup at the moment, even during the day. For me, one of the elements that makes Fusion Fusion is the ground shaking bass during the day, which began with the morning sets and ended at sunset. That's roughly 75% of the entire 24 hour day, which is fine with me if the night is a little less loud and intense. The Lambda setup, in my opinion, does not stimulate the touch sense as well as the Funktion One setup, which I believe is required to achieve perfect harmony with all four other senses that are perfectly stimulated. It's that little difference between making the party from amazing to mesmerizing and then it's all about the little details, like the intensity of the bass. To truly create that collective audio hypnosis with thousands of people at the same time, you just need a more powerfull bass, especially now the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste dance floor is so large. Hence my letter. But like mentioned earlier in my replies, it's OK to have different experiences and opinions, especially when it's about such an emotional and personal thing as audio. It's OK to disagree here, but I just want to share some arguments and experiences.

I agree with you that the ground shaking bass is not Funktion One limited and that Lamda Labs def could also create such a bass sound. But my experience is just so amazing with Funktion One that that is my reference point for my argumentation.

PS: One solution to please everyone in this matter could be to stick with the Lambda Labd end fire cardiod subwoofer array at the Turmbühne and return to the Funktion One setup at the Tanzwüste:) But then again, curious about the other arguments of Kulturkosmos to chose for the end fire cardiod solution (regulations, government policy, money) For this reason very curious about their reply.

[solidarite]

Interesting debate. Two things to throw in from me: From earlier years, I know that one of the main problems for the soundpeople was that they could not fully turn up the systems. Decibel levels are measured all times at various points. Also, the different stages interfered with one another. Tanzwüste sound went directly into the large tent stage, which plays live concerts (forgot its name, at Landebahn). I think this is why they skipped it a bit to the side some years ago. Thus, the challenge is to keep the sound from spreading too far out, which is of course a problem with concentric bass. I have heard that considerations as such are crucial factors for choosing the setup.
The other point is more social and cultural.I guess Fusion just wants to try out cooperating with new people and give them a chance and feature new ideas. This is always a risk, as you never know before how it will work out in detail. Some years ago, they made the experiment at Turmbühne which did not work at all, I think it was a 7-point system from a tekkno crew from Eastern Europe. Nice idea, but did not work. This year Tanzwüste was made by Prior sounds, as far as I know a sound-engineering nerd from the Suedpol Hamburg crew, building his stack with his own hands. This worked remarkably well. Still, it is different to work with such people rather than with the large companies who are used to produce stadium sounds. I personally think it is very good when Fusion pushes those more alternative sound freaks, especially if they raise to the occasion as it was this time.

[flameijer]

Hi Fisionista's,

as an audiophile I deeply care about the sound experience at one of the biggest love of my life: Fusion Festival. This is my letter to the Fusion Festival organizers in order to start a conversation about the sound system of their two largest dance floors: the famous and infamous Turmbühne and Tanzwüste. I decided to post this letter on this forum because I am very interested in your opinion and would like to start a conversation with you.

Here is the letter and I'm very looking forward to your reply:)

"To:
Martin Eulenhaupt
Kulturkosmos Müritz e.V.
Am Flugplatz 17248, Lärz, DEUTSCHLAND

Subject: Let’s talk about the sound system at Turmbühne & Tanzwüste


Dear Kulturkosmos, dear Martin, dear Eule,

Finally, after three years of unfulfilled desire to party, create and connect, the Fusion rocket has launched again. It’s hard to describe my feelings about the Fusion Festival of this year but if I could summarize it in one word then that would be mesmerizing. I would like to thank you and Kulturkosmos for organizing the Fusion again and putting all the love and effort into in. All the Kulturkosmos crewmembers and Fusion volunteers are a true inspiration.

Along with my words of gratitude, I'd like to bring something to your and the festival's attention. Therefore, I'd like to return to 2015, to my first Fusion Festival.

I remember it like it was yesterday. For the first time in my life, all five of my senses were intensely stimulated at the same time. My eyes were treated to the most insane stages, decoration, and art installations; I tasted the best vegetarian food; my nose enjoyed the smell of burning wood in the open fireplaces; my ears were treated to the best Berlin melodic techno; and my touch was intensely stimulated by the Funktion One sound system's bass. In this letter, I'd like to elaborate on the last one, which I believe has been deteriorating over the last two Fusions.

Like mentioned before, in 2015, I was astounded and impressed as I had never been before after hearing and feeling the first bass sound on the Turmbühne. I've been to many top-notch festivals, but nowhere else have I heard such audio pornography as at the Turmbühne (and later the Tanzwüste). Every single vein and cell in my body vibrated and the Funktion One sound system reminded me that my body is made up of 80% water.

A good quality sound system, in my opinion, combines two things: you must hear every detail of the music while also physically feeling it. Funktion One perfectly combines these two elements: crystal clear hearing and intense bass sensation. It is, in my opinion (maybe together with L’Acoustics) the only sound system that can hypnotize an entire dance floor of thousands of people and truly make them one with the music, rather than just the people in front of the speakers. The Funktion One sound system makes you feel and touch the music, vibrating and touching every cell in your body for the ultimate party experience. For this reason, the bass must fuck.

Unfortunately, I must conclude that the sound level at Fusion has become less intense since 2019 and that there is a significant lack of intense bass feeling around the dancefloor when compared to the Funktion One sound system that I heard in 2015, 2016, and 2018. The D&B line array combined with the 32 Prior Sounds Single 18 subwoofers on the Tanzwüste this year sounded amazing, but it simply did not come close to the sound I heard on the Tankwüste in 2018 with the Funktion One 12x F221 8-ohm bass wall. But my main concern is with the Turmbühne because you can't feel the bass and can hear people's conversations even when standing in the sweet spot. The new dance arena with the tribunes looks amazing, but there was never a truly intense party going on, so I became curious as to why Fusion changed a winning team.

In order to obtain some answers, I started doing some research and learned that a different and less intense sound system was chosen at the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste to protect the Lärz neighbors and those camping near the stages. As a result, a Lamba Labs end fire cardiod subwoofer array was chosen this year at the Turmbühne. I understand the arguments for using such a system due to the noise pollution, but it is simply too quiet to hypnotize a full dancefloor and lacks the bass feeling that I experienced with a point source Funktion One sound system. The audio sweet spot on this system is simply too small, resulting in a less intense and crazy party on the dancefloor where people go completely bananas.

With a heavy audiophile heart, I have to say that Fusion's position as Europe's best audio experience festival is in jeopardy as a result of this new sound approach. But I'd like to propose a solution in which it's safe and responsible to return to the Funktion One sound system. And that is to advise all Fusionista’s to wear ear protection while dancing and sleeping, and that Kulturkosmos should make it easy to purchase such ear protection throughout the venue.

Since I started going to Fusion, I've always worn earplugs while dancing and sleeping. I wear filter earplugs with a 15-decibels sound filter during dancing and while sleeping, I wear an Orophax earplug, which completely blocks out my hearing. I'm sure the Lamda Lab sound system at the Turmbühne sounds better without earplugs, but I think it's extremely irresponsible not to wear earplugs at Fusion Festival in general. Please see the following table of decibels versus the amount of time it takes to cause irreversible hearing damage if you do not wear ear protection:

92 dB: after 30 minutes hear damage
95 dB: after 15 minutes hear damage
100 dB: after 5 minutes hear damage
110 dB: direct hear damage
120 dB: direct hear damage

For reference, a heavy truck passing by is approximately 89 dB. The decibels level at music festivals in the Netherlands is allowed to go up to 103 dB. The Dutch government assumed hearing protection when developing this 103 dB standard. Because the Netherlands is so densely populated, noise pollution is common. Anything above 110 dB is therefore illegal. That is why, unlike Fusion, no Dutch festivals really generate that audio experience. As a result, I always travel to less densely populated countries, such as Germany, to attend techno festivals where decibel levels can reach 120-130 dB.

My estimation is that the level at Fusion is around 110 dB. As a result, people should protect their hearing by wearing ear protection. Surprisingly, I see a lot of people at Fusion Festival wearing no earplugs at all, and I wonder if these people are aware that this can cause irreversible damage to their ears, and that as they get older, their hearing will deteriorate dramatically, potentially leading to deafness. I believe it is the organization's responsibility to inform the public of the risks to their ears' health. Nowhere on Fusion Festival can you get filter earplugs; the only option is some kind of Orophax earplugs, but those earplugs severely muffle the sound, making it impossible to fully enjoy and appreciate the music.

I'd also like to point out that high frequency tones, not low frequency tones, are primarily responsible for hearing damage. Reducing the number of bass in the sound system has little effect on ear protection.

So, to summarize, this is what I propose. Fusion reconsiders the end fire cardiod subwoofer arrays and returns to the Funktion One sound system at the Turmbühne plus the Tanzwüste 2018 set-up and advise people to wear filter earplugs when dancing and Orophax earplugs when sleeping. Kulturkosmos should ensure that filter earplugs and Orophax earplugs are sold at all stages, while also informing attendees about the dangers of not wearing earplugs. And everyone in Lärz and the surrounding areas should get free Orophax. They really work.

Of course, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and start a conversation. I am aware that, in addition to the protection argument, there could be several other reasons for this sound set-up & design change (regulations, government policy, maybe even money). But I’d be delighted to hear them. I'm willing to come to Lärz to persuade you of my ideas and brainstorm awareness campaigns with you because the Fusion sound experience is very important to me. As an audiophile, I'm convinced that a stunning and intense sound and bass experience is inextricably linked to the connection of people on the dancefloor, and that it's the most important factor in creating an amazing overall party and festival experience.

With love and looking very much forward to your reply,



Frank Lameijer
Amsterdam, The Netherlands"

Thanks for raising the awareness of hearing damage and hearing protection! Very useful information! Thanks!

Hi What about love,

Thank you, that's very kind of you and happy to make my contribution for a better Fusion:)

[Schmusesuse]

come on guys, in the past during nighttime you had NO level at all at Turmbühne. it was superboring and every artist who had to play at night knew it will be not a highlight. Now it is even during nighttime a pleasure. Last year the lambda could play louder at turmbühne because there were only 4 stages with these planet events. Now during night, the whole emission from 30 stages is being measured by walking around measuring guys. when level is exceeded, FOH people pull levels down. hard but fair. so isn't it an great achievement to play at least at these levels, which are still great to perform and dance, during night? of course we can go back to groundshaking bass arrays like in the past during daytime..and in the night we just leave out the big stages like I always did in the night and seeking the small ones, because it was so boring on the big. imagine lambda would just take their 50 subs from this time and make such a wall or tower like f1 did in the past. do you really think it would not work. Really? it is a changed concept. maybe a more up-to-date one, to achieve more goals at once and to satisfy more people in the end?

Hi Schmusesuse,

Thank you for your message and I feel what you say, great arguments. At night it was always indeed less intense and loud and I also decided to check out the smaller stages. However, I maintain that there is a lack of bass at the Lamba system setup at the moment, even during the day. For me, one of the elements that makes Fusion Fusion is the ground shaking bass during the day, which began with the morning sets and ended at sunset. That's roughly 75% of the entire 24 hour day, which is fine with me if the night is a little less loud and intense. The Lambda setup, in my opinion, does not stimulate the touch sense as well as the Funktion One setup, which I believe is required to achieve perfect harmony with all four other senses that are perfectly stimulated. It's that little difference between making the party from amazing to mesmerizing and then it's all about the little details, like the intensity of the bass. To truly create that collective audio hypnosis with thousands of people at the same time, you just need a more powerfull bass, especially now the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste dance floor is so large. Hence my letter. But like mentioned earlier in my replies, it's OK to have different experiences and opinions, especially when it's about such an emotional and personal thing as audio. It's OK to disagree here, but I just want to share some arguments and experiences.

I agree with you that the ground shaking bass is not Funktion One limited and that Lamda Labs def could also create such a bass sound. But my experience is just so amazing with Funktion One that that is my reference point for my argumentation.

Have you really been to the first rows during some acts and daytime? i can hardly believe. I would say that was NOT less bass in comparison to past f1 bass. maybe trimmed a bit different and therefore a super nice, high res bass which make you feel all these little nice differences of bass and no 50 Hz boost, which gets boring after a while because every "boom" sounds the same. and maybe now still in kind of tonal balance and not only bass left, because highs and mids are already lost ( and with earplugs even more). so maybe you like body crushing bass and nothing else .

[flameijer]

come on guys, in the past during nighttime you had NO level at all at Turmbühne. it was superboring and every artist who had to play at night knew it will be not a highlight. Now it is even during nighttime a pleasure. Last year the lambda could play louder at turmbühne because there were only 4 stages with these planet events. Now during night, the whole emission from 30 stages is being measured by walking around measuring guys. when level is exceeded, FOH people pull levels down. hard but fair. so isn't it an great achievement to play at least at these levels, which are still great to perform and dance, during night? of course we can go back to groundshaking bass arrays like in the past during daytime..and in the night we just leave out the big stages like I always did in the night and seeking the small ones, because it was so boring on the big. imagine lambda would just take their 50 subs from this time and make such a wall or tower like f1 did in the past. do you really think it would not work. Really? it is a changed concept. maybe a more up-to-date one, to achieve more goals at once and to satisfy more people in the end?

Hi Schmusesuse,

Thank you for your message and I feel what you say, great arguments. At night it was always indeed less intense and loud and I also decided to check out the smaller stages. However, I maintain that there is a lack of bass at the Lamba system setup at the moment, even during the day. For me, one of the elements that makes Fusion Fusion is the ground shaking bass during the day, which began with the morning sets and ended at sunset. That's roughly 75% of the entire 24 hour day, which is fine with me if the night is a little less loud and intense. The Lambda setup, in my opinion, does not stimulate the touch sense as well as the Funktion One setup, which I believe is required to achieve perfect harmony with all four other senses that are perfectly stimulated. It's that little difference between making the party from amazing to mesmerizing and then it's all about the little details, like the intensity of the bass. To truly create that collective audio hypnosis with thousands of people at the same time, you just need a more powerfull bass, especially now the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste dance floor is so large. Hence my letter. But like mentioned earlier in my replies, it's OK to have different experiences and opinions, especially when it's about such an emotional and personal thing as audio. It's OK to disagree here, but I just want to share some arguments and experiences.

I agree with you that the ground shaking bass is not Funktion One limited and that Lamda Labs def could also create such a bass sound. But my experience is just so amazing with Funktion One that that is my reference point for my argumentation.

Have you really been to the first rows during some acts and daytime? i can hardly believe. I would say that was NOT less bass in comparison to past f1 bass. maybe trimmed a bit different and therefore a super nice, high res bass which make you feel all these little nice differences of bass and no 50 Hz boost, which gets boring after a while because every "boom" sounds the same. and maybe now still in kind of tonal balance and not only bass left, because highs and mids are already lost ( and with earplugs even more). so maybe you like body crushing bass and nothing else .

Thanks for your message again. I think I've been on almost every position on the dancefloor of the Turmbühne, also in the front rows. I don't agree with you that every boom sounds the same on F1. It of course also depends on the music and the mastering of the track. In general I experience great tonal balance with F1 which works for me together with that body crushing bass to stimulate my touch sense. That, in my opinion, makes dancing and partying so awesome.

Then I'd like to mention that the fact that I had to be in the first row to experience the Lambda sound bass is extra proof for me that the Lambda end fire cadiod subwoofer array set-up doesn't provide enough bass in the middle and on the sides of the dancefloor, and thus doesn't create the collective audio hypnosis I'm looking for, because there is limited dancing space in the front row sweet spots.

[moodyj]

I think some of you have a more sophisticated opinion on the exact setup but I am also getting the feeling that this choice here is mostly a matter of taste.

As a person who has danced to many different F1 setups and many differend lambda (mostly QX3 + subs) setups, I have to say I will choose the Lambda setup every single time over the F1 (and I still love F1). Basically have to agree with what Schmusesuse said here….

It is not only the vibrating, strong bass that puts me in trance, but also the clear amazing sounds of a PA which causes complete ecstasy after some time for me. I am sure it depends a lot on the music though and I have to admit I am not the biggest fan of Turmbühne sound anymore, I spend much more tome on Tanzwüste and Sonnendeck (e.g. Damon Jee, that‘s what I‘m talking about…). And for such sound I usually find the Lambdas much more clear in the mid range and „flat“ basses sound like heaven to me.

At the end it is probably the setuo that matters the most for PAs of this scale. And I will still always anjoy standing in front of the Rootsbase Subs for sure

[vitaketamine]

I also want to add that the LL system would be capable of delivering the bass you are looking for IF the PA crew could crank it up. But they can't do it for various reasons. It would be interesting to hear a full on LL system in the wild without regulations.